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Ducky M |
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Laird Shaw |
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So how would it start? I guess something like, "Did you hear about the elephant in the library?"
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Laird Shaw |
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Did you hear about the elephant in the library?
He loved to show off the books on Tuskany. |
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Naturyl |
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heh...
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Cloudwalker |
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These women say they are in favor of equality, but are really only in favor of getting rid of the aspects of sexism that adversely effect them.Free men have never had to "fight" for social value and worth, or to defend their own physical attributes. Men have never been denied the right to vote or bring about change in political arenas. Men have never had laws defining the limitations of physical abuse they could endure at the hand (stick) of their spouse, or be considered property by law. Men have never had to bear the hardship of being labeled "unseemly" or "whore" for their style of clothing, or that 'dreaded mistake' of raising the desire of their sexual attacker. Men have never had to hand over their property rights to their spouse or stand in a court of law and battle for the privilege of being called a "person." The list goes on and on when it comes to what women had to meet with before women's rights. Equal rights for women at no time included "getting rid" of anything other than the unfair (and ignorant) idea that women were incapable of being just as beneficial to society's growth as a man and/or that they were not mentally competent at making financial or familial decisions. So what if women want to get rid of the aspects of sexism that adversely effect them. Does that make a man less of a man? Are you suggesting men don't ask or wish for the same? It's funny how men define "equality for women" as, by default, meaning "treated like a man" rather than "treated equally to a man." They want to maintain the parts of sexism that negatively effect men so that they can exploit them for their own benefit.Show me the evidence. What parts of sexism that negatively effect men do feminist attempt to maintain and exploit to their benefit? I tend to think money will win over 80-90% of women, when it comes down to it.A man divorces his wife of 30 years to marry a young twit with a tight ass who wants his money and he is envied while she is vilified. I tend to think 80-90% of men want a young twit with a tight ass. Lucky for those guys with money who tend to think like you. So women not only have to remain understanding while men use the Madonna-whore complex as an excuse for infidelity, we also have to contend with men thinking we are out for their $$ as well? ...and they still scratch their heads when they get dumped for the pool boy.
In times of change learners inherit the earth; while the learned find themselves
beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. E. Hoffer
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Erasmus.alicesrestaurant |
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Cloudwalker wrotFeminists are the biggest promoters of Madonna-whore complex going. First they pretend that men think that way but secondly they routinely accuse any sexually active woman who does not share their belief in the superiority of men and all things associated with them of being a sex object - that is, a whore. They would much rather join the Puritans in closing sexual entertainment down than encourage men to be erotic entertainers equal with women. They invariably phrae everything to do with relations between the sexes in traditional, even reactionary, ters of the man demanding and the woman giving in. Equality in sexual relations is beyond their 1950s comprehension.Their ideal woman wants a man to have traditional affection and emotional concern (and sexual restriction) for her, but regards these as outrageous infringements of her 'freedom' for a man to expect the same, even while at the same time as coplaining about men 'suppressing' her sexual freedom she is complaining that men want her to be sexually free. She is happy to dismiss anything she thinks of as traditional to women as inferior that women should despise, but equally happy with the thought of a man doing it - though if h actually does she will probably complain that he is trying to take her 'domain' over.Bullshit. Working men had to 'fight' for the right to vote and to unionise. True, even to this day the law is reluctant to admit hat men suffer violence at the hands of women and often so are the men, while it has always been tradition that a gentleman never strikes a lady no matter what she does to him. Men and boys are frequently harrassed and physically attacked for stepping out of strict dress conformity in quite minute respects and are still not accepted to wear "women's" clothes, while women have been free for some 50 years to dress like men or any other way they choose. Perhaps you are too young to remember the 1960s Civil Rights riots or even South Africa as recently as 20 years ago. The idea that women are less beneficial to society than men exists purely in Feminist minds (and perhaps a few male chauvinists) who reject any social values except economic and political. What does society exist for except to allow people to raise a family together? It is true that for a period of 100 years or so women freed themselves from having to work so they could have the freedom of running their own home with the man working for them, though of course in those days only the lowest classes worked for a living at all.These women say they are in favor of equality, but are really only in favor of getting rid of the aspects of sexism that adversely effect them.Free men have never had to "fight" for social value and worth, or to defend their own physical attributes. Men have never been denied the right to vote or bring about change in political arenas. Men have never had laws defining the limitations of physical abuse they could endure at the hand (stick) of their spouse, or be considered property by law. Men have never had to bear the hardship of being labeled "unseemly" or "whore" for their style of clothing, or that 'dreaded mistake' of raising the desire of their sexual attacker. Men have never had to hand over their property rights to their spouse or stand in a court of law and battle for the privilege of being called a "person." The list goes on and on when it comes to what women had to meet with before women's rights. Equal rights for women at no time included "getting rid" of anything other than the unfair (and ignorant) idea that women were incapable of being just as beneficial to society's growth as a man and/or that they were not mentally competent at making financial or familial decisions. Try this 9.00am 15 Sep for a reality check instead of misogynist feminist propaganda.
God created man and man created God. So is it in the world. Men
make gods and they worship their creations. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men. (Gospel of
Philip: Logion 85: 1-4)
Last Edited By: Erasmus
09/15/09 15:06:53.
Edited 1 times.
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BlackEsoterica |
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Cloudwalker wrote: No, obviously a man isn't less of a man because he doesn't discriminate against women. Are you suggesting men don't ask or wish for the same?Pretty much. Is it really that commonplace for men to raise a big stink about having to go out and bust their asses so that they can attract a partner, or support an expensive lifestyle for their wives and children, or for having to fight in the military conflicts of the world, or for being expected to be tough, emotionless robots come hell or high water? No, it is not common for men to cry sexism, as part of masculinity is to be an uncomplaining beast of burden. Liberal and leftist guys don't want to say anything because of sensitivities to the historical injustices women have had to deal with. They want to maintain the parts of sexism that negatively effect men so that they can exploit them for their own benefit.Show me the evidence. What parts of sexism that negatively effect men do feminist attempt to maintain and exploit to their benefit? I wasn't refering to feminists per se, but relating my experiences in looking for a partner. The aspects of sexism that women try to maintain are in having the man pay for everything and to basically get their way as much as possible. You don't see women slaving away in a coal mine to support their husbands. Why would they bother when its expected that men go out and do that sort of thing. Accept horrible, backbreaking, low wage work for the sake of women and their desires. The situation wouldn't be so ridiculous if there weren't so many idiotic men willing to pretty much sell their souls for sex. Its got to be difficult for attractive women to keep from being completely spoiled bitches in this environment.
The taco that can be eaten is not the eternal taco.
Last Edited By: BlackEsoterica
09/15/09 14:50:46.
Edited 1 times.
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hmcclungiii |
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I don't agree entirely with everything you've said, and I don't have time to comment much more, but I thought this much was very insightful ...
Is it really that commonplace for men to raise a big stink about having to go out and bust their asses so that they can attract a partner, or support an expensive lifestyle for their wives and children, or for having to fight in the military conflicts of the world, or for being expected to be tough, emotionless robots come hell or high water? No, it is not common for men to cry sexism, as part of masculinity is to be an uncomplaining beast of burden. To those who are sick of hearing me say I don't have time right now to go any further, I'm not copping out, and I do apologize, but this is the best I can offer right now. |
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Erasmus.alicesrestaurant |
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BlackEsoterica wrote:Some years ago there was a newspaper report about young Irish women disillusioned with the New York finance world. We keep hearing how the financial world discriminates against women and men always want women to be lower than them in status and earning. This is what the Irish women actually experienced. They felt like whores. The only reason any woman went out with a man was money. There was no such thing as a friendly chat or a drink after work, individually or as a group, no casual relationships or sex. The women expected men to pay for everything and to try to seduce them, but only in the hope of marriage. No matter what their own earnings or status, no man was worth their attention unless he was at at least two ranks above. She expected him to pay for everything, taking her out and after marriage when she expected to work part-time whether she had children or not. His money was 'theirs', hers was hers. It did not matter if she did have children, if he was not paying servants to look after the home he was not worth marrying. In other words, the only people choosing to work and earn less were the women themselves. No sinister 'patriarchy' was excluding them from top jobs and making them work part-time to 'depend' on men: it was entirely their own choice and the men's duty if they wanted the woman. (Though why any man should want such a bitch I can't imagine). Naturally it poisoned relations between the sexes. All the women wanted to offer was sex on very expensive terms, so that is all the men valued them for. Feminists like to blame men for this suppression of women as emotional and sexually active beings, as if it somehow disadvantaged the women for the men's benefit. That assumption is one common to conspiracy theorists of that sort, that other people (other women that is) are too stupid to see what only the self-appointed élite understand is going on. Far from supporting women, by casting them as deluded fools in order to avoid holding them equally responsible for the way society is, feminists show as much contempt for them as Marx did for his Lumpenproletariat
God created man and man created God. So is it in the world. Men
make gods and they worship their creations. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men. (Gospel of
Philip: Logion 85: 1-4)
Last Edited By: Erasmus
09/15/09 17:02:46.
Edited 1 times.
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Naturyl |
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Erasmus, you rock. I thoroughly enjoy the rare delight of seeing the truth told. Thanks for injecting some reality into this discussion.
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Erasmus.alicesrestaurant |
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Christ! I must be American at heart
God created man and man created God. So is it in the world. Men
make gods and they worship their creations. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men. (Gospel of
Philip: Logion 85: 1-4)
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Naturyl |
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Well, I'm fairly unusual here, also. Feminism is well-established in America and you would be persona non grata in a lot of places here as well.
But KIR is not an average American sort of place, by any means. We value things like logic, reason, evidence, facts, etc. Conventional, socially-accepted views
are not safe here just because they are popular. Everything is open to examination and/or criticism.
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Erasmus.alicesrestaurant |
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Well in my view 'Feminism' is one of those words like 'Communism' that has come to mean almost the opposite of how it started out (I think
because that preserved corporate values against a much more serious 'feminist' challenge in the 60s) and argues its points with a mixture of
unsupported folklore and what is was (or claimed to be) long before any of us was born. I'm not that impressed when somebody argues that if I
argue against feminists now I must be opposed to everything feminists did then. That's a bullshit false argument I'm well familiar
with from Communists. Who could possibly object to the basic ideals of mutual support and workers getting their due reward without some Stock Exchange sponger
creaming it off and selling them down the river? Now compare that ideal with what Communism actually turned out to be. OK so that wasn't the
real Communism. Maybe not, but it's what everybody now thinks it is and it's what leaders calling themselves Communist made it (and
mostly slaughtered those more liberal than themselves). And even now that old-style Stalinist Maoist Communism still has its supporters.
Meanwhile, (maybe not so much in the US) most of what Communists wanted 100 years ago has come true and more. In one way, all those raving Rightists shouting about Obama being 'Socialist' have a sort of point because their ideas are so archaic that yes, most of the civilised world today is far closer to Socialism than even Socialists imagined 150 years ago. In the same way, when feminists go on about what they want, they seem to be the only women who think they don't have it and more. Equality? There are a few ways that women still have social privileges over men - but you won't find feminists seeing it that way. I'll admit that the US has a very macho culture that often leaves women less well off than in Europe - but feminists mostly support that go-getter machismo, they want to join the men, not to say women have different but equal values and priorities that the men could do well to learn from them. It's much more feminists than anybody else that are first to put women down unless they conform to masculine stereotypes. I look at it the other way, that men could do well to learn to be fathers and lovers again and not just cogs in the company machine. I'll support women wanting abortion so they can pursue a career. But I'll support even more longer maternity and paternity leave and 'socialist' state support for the much greater number of men and women who don't have the privilege of a career they want to put ahead of family life and just have to have a job to get by and have to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy because they just can't afford it in time or money. Career women mostly don't get pregnant without planning. A lot of girls do, maybe because they think it will give their dreary life some personal meaning, maybe because the boyfriend is a shit. If they had the choice, would they prefer to have it aborted so they can go on behind a till being a nothing with no prospects or would they at least like to feel they'd achieved something in having a child that they'd 'made' almost on their own when nobody values them as capable of anything else?
God created man and man created God. So is it in the world. Men
make gods and they worship their creations. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men. (Gospel of
Philip: Logion 85: 1-4)
Last Edited By: Erasmus
09/15/09 18:39:59.
Edited 1 times.
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Cloudwalker |
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Men and boys are frequently harrassed and physically attacked for stepping out of strict dress conformity in quite minute respects and are still not accepted to wear "women's" clothes, while women have been free for some 50 years to dress like men or any other way they choose.But is there a law in place preventing them from doing so? Here in the U.S., women in 1944 were still being arrested (in some states) for wearing pants, and even into the 90's there were still laws in CA that employers could fire a woman for going against the dress code and wearing trousers to work. Oh and btw, you can dress your little boy in a flowery jumpsuit and pink teenies and don a nice miniskirt yourself for all I care. You won't be arrested. There is a difference between social intolerance and breaking the law. And how many young men set out on a course knowing they can live a life of luxury with a rich woman to look after them?Knowing they can? Probably the same number as there are women. What, you think all women that go after a man's $$ are sure to get it? Maybe where you come from there aren't as many men who set out for rich women, but the trend here is growing like wildfire. A Google search for "how to meet rich women" gives you over 46 million results. Of course when a man marries a woman for her money it's not called golddigging by most men, it's called playing it smart. The situation wouldn't be so ridiculous if there weren't so many idiotic men willing to pretty much sell their souls for sex.Thanks for the honesty.
In times of change learners inherit the earth; while the learned find themselves
beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. E. Hoffer
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Sherezada |
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There are as many male golddiggers as there are female.
Caminante, no hay camino; se hace camino al andar. |
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Abominable Juggernaut |
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Sherezada wrote:Proof?
Quote: "Judge a man by his questions
rather than his answers." - Voltaire
Links: Lifehacker.com | Stronglifts.com | The Simple Dollar | TED | Slick Deals | The Straight Dope | Dark Roasted Blend | The Art of Manliness | Roissy in DC | Forums: The Star Chamber | KIR | Usual Suspects | GENIUS FORUMS | |
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Dan Rowden |
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Sherezada wrote:That may be true in very specific cultures. Globally, however, I don't see it as possible. It certainly isn't remotely true in Australia. |
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Sherezada |
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Dan, what keeps dudes in Australia from digging for gold?
Caminante, no hay camino; se hace camino al andar. |
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Dan Rowden |
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It's a statistical thing. I'm sure some do, but speaking statistically (which is what you essentially did) men are still more likely to have
sufficient wealth to attract gold diggers. But I would also argue that such behaviour is really more likely to be exhibited by females. If I have time when I
get back online I'll try and justify that claim further.
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Sherezada |
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Ok, let me try to put it in terms of "apples to apples". If a single man and a single woman own 1 billion dollars, who do you think will have more
women / men after them, and why?
Caminante, no hay camino; se hace camino al andar. |
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